have never been a fan of the sex pistols
but my lecturer was telling me last week that they were a manufactured band courtesy of malcolm mclarren and that most of the bass and guitar work on never mind the bollocks was done by session musicians(herbie flowers did most of the bass, quite ironic when the sex pistols were meant to oppose all the "old guard" )

I couldnt believe it, when i asked him "well what about ethics" he replied "ethics dont ever come into the picture when your in the music industry"
still my lecturers a total legend, he even played on two tribes

is this shocking news(the sex pistols bit) or does everyone know about it???
dan

This message has been edited. Last edited by: baron,

The bit about session players is not true, as far as I know. That has never seriously been claimed in any publication... and I have read a few bios of them.

The Malcolm Mclaren thing is complicated, we could talk all day about the degree of influence he had on them. There are a lot of different takes on it. I think most people agree that he was a big influence on them and a prime cause of their notoreity, but they did have a lot of talent themselves. For example, the most notorious incident of their career in the UK, swearing on 70s daytime tv, wasn't staged, it was spontaneous.

Herbie Flowers is one of the greatest bassists of our time.

obviously the bad boy image wasnt faked it was just cultivated.

thats the thing its not widely known about the session players.
my lecturer was dating a girl who worked at virgin in the late seventies when they were recording the album and she told him.
so tis gospel

he reckons it will become common knowledge once people start dying and dishing the dirt
its actually really common for producers to ghost parts of songs (even vocals)
i think its terrible personally, another example of this is frankie goes to hollywood relax was origionally a terrible song but trevor horn heard it, picked out two lines from the song(the relax part) and was like "right heres the song lets go from here"
and to qoute my lecturer all of the band apartfrom the lead singer were not invited to the session.

its not that people dont have talent but producers have a deadline to work to and want to get paid??
dan

PS
mmm jsut love the bass on transformer he is a masterful bass man

Another reason I can't believe it's true Dan, is because I have heard loads of live boots from before (and after) the album, as well as loads of demo recordings from '76 before they were involved with a record company. Basically having heard all that, I can safely say, there is no quantum leap from that, to the album. And I can quite believe the same lads who did the live shows and early demoes, laid down the tracks for the album.

So there doesn't seem to have been any need for session men. It would have been totally pointless when they were quite capable of making that sound themselves.

doesnt bother me if you dont believe it.
cus no one is going to admit to it.
happens quite a lot though
dan

ok but answer this question: what was the point of getting in session men, if they were capable of producing that sound themselves?

beacause bands who have no experience in a proper studio get kinda edgy/scared and what works fine live on demos doesnt always cut it when you are doing a proper album, perhaps they cannot get a perfect take, i mean if the artist does 90 percent of the song right and then makes a really big mistake, it can fuck up the song.
especially whe you are working to a deadline

as regards to the sound good session players can mimic a players style.
does that answer the question at all
dan

Didn't they have a bassist who could actually play before they recruited Sid because he looked the part?

Glen matlock was the original Bassist he also wrote some of the more fameous Pistols songs such as Pretty Vacant. Glen is a very good musician and there would be no need for session musicians.(I saw Glen play last Saturday and he is a very good musican)

Its common knowledge that Steve Jones played all of Sids bass parts because Sid couldnt play Bass...

Also, there is a very in depth documentary with the sound enginier who produced 'Never mind the bollocks' At no point did he mention session musicians...he would have nothing to lose by saying so.

Also had the pistols used session musicians they would have come out and said it by now, as none of them really give a fuck anymore.



As for the pistols being manufactuerd, to a degree yes they were...but everyone knows the story of malcolm and the pistols...this is OLD NEWS.

Your teachers talking shite, just cause some bird at the record company says so does not make it gospel.

well he would know a sight more, than you as you have only read a book.
no he swears its true he has been around workig in the music business for over 30 years so i take it as true.

danny boy

That's a good point Alaice, I don't think the pistols care too much about credibility at this stage and if they had the opportunity to poke holes in their own myth with a truth like that then Sid at least would jump at the opportunity.

However it's not unknown for bands to be almost replaced on albums by session musicians, especially if it's a debut. The Who's first album was almost entirely recorded with veteran R&B musicians. The Who however went on to master their istruments and form a very tight live outfit, heck they're still going. So with regard to The Pistols, I wouldn't rule it out but you're lecturer may be overexaggerating a little to sound important. Sometimes people on the outside of music scenes need to throw these 'facts' around to feel involved/important.

Dan, this would be one of the most sensational music stories ever, given the Pistols anti-establishment stance. There are so many who would have nothing to lose by telling this story if it were true. That it hasn't leaked by now is enough evidence that it's bullshit. But yeah you're convinced by the testimony of one person (who is probably the kind of muso that the Pistols so despised) so I guess there's no point discussing the evidence is there

quote:

Originally posted by baron:
well he would know a sight more, than you as you have only read a book.
no he swears its true he has been around workig in the music business for over 30 years so i take it as true.

danny boy

Hmm, actulley i have studied this topic in depth as i have been making a documentary on punk music, and i have interviewed many major people who were involved in the scene in the 70s...so yeah, i did more than read a book! After all the research i have done i find it VERY hard to believe that there was some big cover up and the pistols never played on thier album. I agree with who ever said you lecturer is exagerting a tad!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: just_like_Alice,

hey just like alice, I could swear that your pic in "kula's fans" was the pic of a dude! was it? did you change it?, or is it that I need a break after writing a twelve-page paper?

i hate econometrics