I take your point Thweeksie, however, I must say that this has been one of the most intelligent and interesting things I have read in a long time (so thanks to all contributors). I would say this debate has moved on considerably from the original comments made years ago and while I do not want to presume what others feel about it, I’d say that we all understand where C was coming from. Thing is, as I see it, it’s no longer about C, it’s a philosophical debate and I don’t see that it can cause harm particularly for new people reading this. In fact the opposite is true. C has made his response. This debate has gone a long way to clarify both positions in a very fair and balanced way. This is free speech at its best, censorship is not required.

Yes sky freedom of speech & all that. I didnt actually mention censorship but if this were my site I would (at the very least) create a 'For those that cant let go' thread.

I would then delete all references to this on any other thread.

That way people might realize (intellegent or not) its old hat -and drop it altogether.

Every time someone drags up some pathetic article or other what actually happens?

You get a debate about racism and interpretation of the swastika and it just spoils the positivty of such a brilliant band.

A failiure to move with the times or what?

For Gods sake 'FEEL ANOTHER ENERGY.'

As the passion that's been seen at some points on this thread indicates, it's still a hot issue. It's by no means old hat.

On the other hand, pretty much everyone here is in agreement about what Crispian meant at the time. And agree he's not blameworthy for that. The article bringing this issue up again has just provided a springboard for a discussion of a more abstract nature, as Skye remarks.

Crispian definitively clarified his position in 1997 and - bless 'im - he humours most journalists to this day who ask him about it. Including a link on the front page to some 'clarification' subpage would be disproportionate in the extreme.

quote:

Originally posted by Thweeksie:
You get a debate about racism and interpretation of the swastika and it just spoils the positivty of such a brilliant band.

Since when does debate equal negativity? It's an important issue, and different people have (very) different viewpoints. So it will continue to be discussed from time-to-time. And rightfully so. What would be the point of a forum where only "positive" messages could be expressed? I'm sure that's the last thing the band would want. As it is they should be pleased that on the evidence of the forum, their fans are intelligent people who can discuss difficult topics without resorting to flaming each other and personal attacks. And I've seen enough other of other forums to know that such enlightenment is the exception rather than the rule...

quote:

Originally posted by 2-J:
But again - is the consideration that Germany has a small but significant Neo-Nazi underground movement decisive? Well surely not seeing as you yourself can appreciate the symbol in its Hindu context. So why are you so tolerant of others who don't make the effort, like you do?

I guess I’m just a very tolerant person and always try to understand why people think this or that way. I guess I’d be much more able to see the swastika more in a positive way if I wasn’t from Germany. But this country is still too much influenced by its past that it’s impossible for me to "ignore" what the swastika still stands for over here.
As I said, I have to see it in context and that will never change as long as it’s still used in a negative way.
Of course I think it is important to let people know about the history of the swastika and where it came from, but sadly I don’t think it really mattered to many of those I spoke to. It is just some information which is "interesting" to them, but they won’t change their mind.

Oh, and may I also mention: We just received a threatening letter at our newspaper written by a neo nazi. One of the many things he wrote was that he’ll find out where the editors live (I’m one of them) if we continue reporting the way we do.
Because we published an article about a school-magazine which is published to enlighten pupils about the neo nazi scene in Germany.

Regarding Thweeksies post: May I remind you that you also posted your opinion about this. Now you’ve suddenly changed your mind and blame us for discussing a topic like this on a Kula board.
Well, I don’t think that many people who come on here for the first time care to read this whole thread anyway. But if they do, they’ll realise that this doesn’t have anything to do with the comments Crispian made years ago.
This is a discussion board, why shouldn’t we be allowed to discuss anything we want? Okay, this might be better suited in the off-topic part of the forum by now, but your idea of creating a thread which can’t be read by others or even make a statement about this on the main page is just a bit too much. Sorry.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: raagy girl,

Ok, so rock is where the news is read.

Amongst other things.

quote:

Originally posted by Thweeksie:
Ok, so rock is where the news is read.

Amongst other things.

SHOCK! it's all in your head.

Group hug for Tweeksie!

Hey you digress!

Get back to the past.............

quote:

Originally posted by raagy girl:
I guess I’m just a very tolerant person and always try to understand why people think this or that way. I guess I’d be much more able to see the swastika more in a positive way if I wasn’t from Germany.

That is the paradox of tolerance though; how far must one tolerate intolerance? A classic problem. I believe being tolerant is compatible with not tolerating intolerance.

It's one thing to *understand*, it's another to *endorse*. I can understand why people refuse to accept the swastika in other contexts (to the point of, for example with the Crispian / Kula issue, actually getting very angry that someone could suggest using it in a quasi-Hindu context) but that doesn't mean I agree with them, or think that is a good behaviour.

It sounds as if we're mostly in agreement over this anyway.

quote:

But this country is still too much influenced by its past that it’s impossible for me to "ignore" what the swastika still stands for over here.

I don't think you have to ignore any material facts about the swastika (e.g. that the Nazis used it before, that the Neo-Nazis use it today) to appreciate it in other legitimate contexts.

Personally I would have thought that any popular music band (never mind ethnic origin) that put Indian influenced music into the mainstream should be applauded. Its just a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

If anything, their music only made people, who may have up to that point been quite ignorant, more aware of another culture. Surely thats something that most Asian people would have applauded. Again I think a lot of the criticism that KS have always taken comes back to the class issue, something that certain people in the media can never get their head around.