quote:

Originally posted by Christine from Oz:
2-J, I know you said you are only guessing regarding 'Silver Apples' and Crispian retaining the Pi recording rights, but hey,the mind boggles. If that is the case we still might hear those Solo Recordings one day!

Except Crispian has made it clear that he would prefer those recordings not to see the light of day, so the fact that he controls them actually reduces the chances of hearing them. You'd have more chance of hearing them if they were still owned by Sony, since their objections to releasing them originally were commercial ones rather than artistic ones. Which means that if one day Sony decided that it was better to cash in on a KS reunion rather than leave them mouldering on a shelf, then they would do so, with or without CM's permission. But as long as CM holds the rights then I can't see him ever changing his mind.

Although having said that, I guess Sony would only be able to issue them without CM's approval if all the songs were already published, and I've no idea if that is the case or not.

I suspect this matters less to 2-J than the rest of us anyway

I think the one ray of hope is that CM has consistently returned to revamp unreleased songs so old that other artists would consider them abandoned (e.g. SYL, Goodbye Tin Terriers, Be Merciful.) So I'm still hopeful that recordings from this period might still be revisited, even if the original recordings themselves are likely to stay locked up.

There is another interesting question that comes out of thinking that Crispian does retain the rights to the Pi stuff; As he stated in the email in December 2001, (and as evidenced from the recordings) he did scrap the idea of putting out the Pi type stuff. And that must have been around the time (ish) of his depature from Sony, to have recorded plenty of stuff by December 2001. But the bone of contention with Sony was that the Pi material was what Crispian wanted to release but Sony didn't want to release...

That said, maybe it's naive in another way to assume that it was just because he didn't retain the rights to the Pi stuff, that that was why the subsequent recordings in 2001 were very different. After all, even if his settlement with Sony had left him without the recordings, he could have easily re-recorded the tracks himself (made new versions, close to the old ones - which he didn't do).

So if you think about it it is implausible that he changed direction just because of his settlement with Sony, even if you believe Sony retained the rights to the recordings (unlikely as I said). It is just ironic that he did change his direction after leaving them (or at least, very close around that time), that's all!

quote:

Originally posted by drykid:
I suspect this matters less to 2-J than the rest of us anyway

There's still a more-or-less completed Pi album out there which would probably be miles better than the 'Crispian Solo' record

quote:

Originally posted by 2-J:
Interesting curios - would be nice to hear Be Merciful again but I'm not holding out much hope...

Well, considering I was sure I lost these at least a couple of years ago and came out empty with at least two rather-thorough (or so I thought...) searches on my own hard drive for this, I'm adopting the "never say never" attitude now. Granted - I don't believe I have it, as it would be weird it would be saved in a completely different location than the rest of them. But maybe once I'm back in Jerusalem I'll run a very deep search on my hard drive.
Ironicly, Be Merciful was the one I was most hoping to hear again.

quote:

Checking the clip you uploaded Pitry, seems for some unknown reason it's the original clip sped up by twice the speed? The original was originally twice as long. I slowed it down to half speed using a program but there's too many artifacts etc so it sounds too bad to post.

Odd. Granted, I haven't lsitened to it for at least a couple of years and the file has been moved around CDs and hard drives of at least 3 different computers in the last 7 years or so... but I doesn't sound weird to me - possibly my original download was defective and ended up getting it at twice the speed and I never knew any better. I'll leave it to the computer-friendly people to figure out if such a thing is even possible.

As for copyrights issues - it is possible that at the time Crispian wanted to re-record something completely different after leaving Sony? It should be remembered that while Teenage Breakdown, Silver Apples and what ends up being One Louder did find their way into the Jeevas' recordings, Anti Material didn't. And as you said, it was supposed to be the first single and I definitely remember it as the most hyped-up song from the bunch. It's possible it left a bad taste at the time - and them a couple of years later, Crispian changed his mind about the entire session - much like his criticism of K when PP&A was released and his criticism of PP&A today... This oculd be the reason the vast majority of the songs weren't re-recorded, even though Crispian enjoyed them at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Pitry:
Well, considering I was sure I lost these at least a couple of years ago and came out empty with at least two rather-thorough (or so I thought...) searches on my own hard drive for this, I'm adopting the "never say never" attitude now. Granted - I don't believe I have it, as it would be weird it would be saved in a completely different location than the rest of them. But maybe once I'm back in Jerusalem I'll run a very deep search on my hard drive.
Ironicly, Be Merciful was the one I was most hoping to hear again.

I know there are semi-regulars on here who have all the clips...

quote:

Originally posted by Pitry:
but I doesn't sound weird to me - possibly my original download was defective and ended up getting it at twice the speed and I never knew any better. I'll leave it to the computer-friendly people to figure out if such a thing is even possible.

Having heard the 46 second version, I can confidently say that is the correct speed. Also there is at least one contemporary net source that refers to it as being a 46 second clip.

quote:

Originally posted by Pitry:
As for copyrights issues - it is possible that at the time Crispian wanted to re-record something completely different after leaving Sony? It should be remembered that while Teenage Breakdown, Silver Apples and what ends up being One Louder did find their way into the Jeevas' recordings, Anti Material didn't. And as you said, it was supposed to be the first single and I definitely remember it as the most hyped-up song from the bunch. It's possible it left a bad taste at the time - and them a couple of years later, Crispian changed his mind about the entire session - much like his criticism of K when PP&A was released and his criticism of PP&A today... This oculd be the reason the vast majority of the songs weren't re-recorded, even though Crispian enjoyed them at the time.

Yeah, interesting to note what made it from the 'solo' years.
Silver Apples was the only track to make it from the early Pi days right through to the Jeevas stuff, was re-recorded of course.
Teenage Breakdown dates from the Pi times as well initially (possibly / probably re-recorded in the later solo times), and, of course re-recorded for the Jeevas. (not played live with Pi though).
Healing Hands which was re-recorded and released on the Jeevas second LP also dates from the late Pi era (not played live with Pi though).
Be Merciful dates from the Pi times but wasn't played live at the Pi dates. Of course we still wait for its definitive release by KS...
One Louder, Red, and Stoned Love made it from the later solo stuff to be released on the One Louder Japanese EP (somewhat reluctantly by all accounts - though Stoned Love was also released on as a UK Bside, Crispian did feel compelled to later re-record that for release too, on the second Jeevas album).
It's Not What You Do made it out unchanged from the post-sony solo stuff, and interestingly Once Upon A Time In America as released on the Jeevas album was recorded during the post-sony solo stuff (except the lyric has one word different 'land of the FREAK' as in the Jeevas demo version and occasionally live).
Scary Parents was re-recorded from the post-Sony sessions...

Of course maybe some of the other jeevas and even KS tracks that have been released, date from these times, but just weren't mentioned. Our only sources of info are reports from Pi live dates, the clips released during those times, a couple of short NME articles and the tracklisting of the 'solo' album. We do know that a lot was ditched though, from the tracks we DO know about that didn't make it (and presumably we were likely to hear about those Crispian considered most promising).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 2-J,

Here is Be Merciful which someone (2-J? Sorry,I don't remember...) kindly provided before

http://www.savefile.com/files/1246096

quote:

Originally posted by m2:
Here is Be Merciful which someone (2-J? Sorry,I don't remember...) kindly provided before

http://www.savefile.com/files/1246096

Thanks! Beautiful

The best version so far... even better than any live or session KS version I have to say... maybe the final KS version will surpass it.

So... only the correct 46-second clip of Antimaterial to go. Anyone got that?

Oh good thanks for posting Be Merciful again M2! I made this clip years ago using my VHS *all the technology I had at the time *L* that's why there's a tiny glitch at the begining).

I'm glad Pitry and you posted those again for everyone to have a go at. Someone has been asking me for those knowing I have them all but I can't seem to find the CD I put them all on. But it's okay now, I'll make a new one

Also BTW, I downloaded Pitry's AntiMaterial and it lasts 46 seconds and is correct speed on my machine!?

quote:

Originally posted by m2:
Here is Be Merciful which someone (2-J? Sorry,I don't remember...) kindly provided before

http://www.savefile.com/files/1246096

Nice one A ful collection now unless anyone has any more.

2j - how do you know so much about these songs? like the 'once upon a time' lyric change, and 'it's not what you do' being a solo song?

I always thought it had a similar feel to the solo songs (love is automatic esp) but classed it as jeevas.

quote:

Also BTW, I downloaded Pitry's AntiMaterial and it lasts 46 seconds and is correct speed on my machine!?

plays fine for me too. try downloading it again.

Maybe someone with audacity (or similar) can do a 'record what you hear' whilst playing the clip and make an mp3 of it and up it here..? Cos I just can't get the clip to work even downloading again.

Oh, Sun Of Surya, was it you who uploaded them before? Thanks! I've got all of them, shall I upload them? or will you make a new (better) one?

Antimaterial which I've got is also the same length as Pity's version, both of them are 46 seconds. This is mine (which was provided by Sun Of Surya).

http://www.savefile.com/files/1246204

I lreally like Love is Automatic, I'd love to hear completed version!

On here it was me who uploaded them before, but I did get them off Sun Of Surya originally (back then)...

Anyway thanks m2 and Sun Of Surya

thanks for clearing that up, we wouldn't want the chain of events compromised! *L*

xD... it doesn't matter much, indeed. Your contribution was more key than mine, though I expect a fair few took the opportunity to avail themselves of my mp3s etc

But as for credit I don't much care.

That is... extremely odd. I won't be able to check the files til Saturday evening at least, but I'm pretty sure my An ti MAterial clip also runs at 30 seconds or so. Erm. I'll check.

Anyhow, thanks to all powers that have brought together the clip of Be Merciful. Squee. I didn't expect my new "never say never" attitude to pay off this quickly